On this episode of MediaRebel Unplugged. So correct. And I bring that up in the book is that you do have these mentorship moments where there is just a moment you just use the exits because I think they're so important. think that whatever the reason is that you have to part ways with someone either they're not doing their job or you've run out of money or whatever the reason is it doesn't matter. You're gonna run into these people again. So one of the things that I challenged my readers in the book was to just really think about who their mentors are. and media rebel unplugged. Today we're talking about mentorship in a way most people never think about it. Not as a program or a big formal thing, but as small daily moments that can completely shift how we lead, grow, and show up at work. My guest Amy Summers is the host of two podcasts, The Pitch with Amy Summers and Pitch Live with Amy Summers. She's an entrepreneur, communications expert, and the author of the upcoming book, 10 mentorship touch points to empower your team and accelerate your career, which will be out in February of 2026. Welcome Amy to the show today. Thank you so much for having me. I am really curious what led you into this work around mentorship. Well, it's a good question because it's not like I set out to be a mentorship expert at all. Really, my journey started very early. I was building my business at the age of 27 and like most entrepreneurs and young professionals starting out, I was really just focused on building my company. I wasn't thinking too much about the people that work for me, although I knew that I had to get some people to work for me. And the book Lift, the idea of it came to me a few years ago when I was celebrating my 20th anniversary for my PR agency, Pitch Publicity. And I was reflecting on all of these things and the book is really kind of a behind the scenes on how I successfully built a company with people. And as I'm getting closer to the end of my career journey, what the epiphany has been is that You know, it really, the product doesn't matter, the service doesn't matter, the people matter. And if you have good people working for you, you will be a success, but you have to really develop them and help them along the way. And that's something that I learned through my career journey that I felt like I needed to share. You know, I love hearing the real beginnings because it shows that mentorship usually grows out of those lived experiences. And as an entrepreneur myself, it can be really hard to find good people to put on your team. And I feel like, you know, some of those people can be developed and they can't be mentored. there are others that just aren't a really good fit for your team. What was your experience like? Both. mean, definitely both. address both in the book. I mean, the book is very transparent. You know, I wanted everyone to see what my failures were and also what worked because if I was, I kept imagining I was just writing this book for somebody that might want to start their own business. Cause I get a lot of questions like that. Like how have you been able to have a business for 20 plus years? And it's things that we don't really talk about, right? Hiring is hard. know, managing people is hard. finding the right people is hard. And all of those things I touch on in the book, there's chapters on each of those things, but along the way, I kind of found a system that worked in the interview process. And I share that. I found different things that worked um as you're developing someone. Cause let's face it, mean, most people don't come to you and say, I want a mentor. mean, some people do nowadays, but most people aren't really seeking that by name. Although they're seeking the benefits that mentorship provide, which is development and all those other things. So as a leader, we need to be aware of that. We need to offer that just daily in everything that we do, rather than make mentorship a separate program over here or a special thing over here that you have to sign up for. should just be. part of your daily routine as a leader as you're developing your own people. Yeah, I think that's the core being a true leader and a good leader at that is that we're mentoring them on this journey. you know, we have interns that we take on here. It's the same thing. I mean, that's the key to their professional development and even, you know, smaller things of like, I just did a speaking engagement at a middle school for their honors program. And we were talking about how it's so important to like identify your audience whenever you're making any type of content and they're actually exploring creating a podcast. So I love that they had turned to me. Um, I felt so honored and my aunt, she's so sweet. She was like, do you have any idea what you just did with like just that one? Like conversation with everybody there, you could have changed their lives. It could have created a whole new career for these children. And so it is those like little moments of mentoring. We don't even realize that we're being a mentor. Your aunt is so correct. And I bring that up in the book is that you do have these mentorship moments where there is just a moment. You just, you speaking at the middle school group, you don't know. mean, years from now, you may have inspired some student on a path just because you were there and you showed up and you showed interest. And all of those things are so important and they're even more important now because Technology, I mean, it's super helpful. It makes us more productive and it makes our lives easier, but it definitely gets in the way of human connection and being present and being in that room with the students and having them feel your energy and excitement, it really does make a difference. I mean, you could probably think of many examples, you know, coming up in your career where someone inspired you. Yeah, absolutely. It's actually really funny. My story was I had a news station came to our school when I was a little girl. And there's this woman I was like, Wow, she's so tall and so pretty. It's really funny because she's actually shorter than me now. Like I'm still connected with her. um And I ended up working for that news station. So talk about a full circle moment. So you're absolutely right. mean, and I didn't actually think about that, you know, and I, and again, I'll go back to, think we mentor people without even realizing it a lot of the time. And when my aunt brought that up, I was like, well, that's a lot of pressure. Wow. Next time I go speak to a group of kids, I'm really going to be thinking, you know, so differently. Cause now of course the cool. We also have this marketing and advertising program we want you to do. And it kind of tailspins, you know, as you start to mentor people that other opportunities. open themselves up. Right. And I think what you just said, like seeing it. So one of the things that I challenged my readers on the book was to just really think about it, who their mentors are. Cause a lot of times you ask somebody who's your mentor. I know from, just from myself, I would immediately tell people, I don't have any mentors. Like I've done everything on my own. I'm like individually like plowing away. But I mean, when I really think about it, it's not true because when you really think about it, there are people in your life. You know, could be a family member even. It doesn't have to be business related. It could be a podcast that you're watching. It could be anything that inspires you. And um what you also said is true. I mean, I addressed this in the book as well. I mean, we are always being watched. always being watched and we're always mentoring. Whether you want to be a mentor or not, you're either modeling good behavior, good communication, or you're modeling bad behavior and bad communication in somebody. out there is going to emulate that. And so I really want people to think about the choices that they're making since we are so much more public these days than it used to be decades ago. It wasn't like this, but now, I mean, every thought, every, you know, congratulations, or if you want to tell someone they're doing something wrong, we do it publicly on social media. And these are all examples of how we are modeling to others how to be in the world. Yeah, I love how you just mentioned the bad experiences that we can have too, like those bad leaders. I think you refer to it as bad boss syndrome. Right? I love that. I have had some, and I know everybody has had some bad bosses. I've had some really bad bosses and they taught me what not to be, you know? And I think it's important that we take those lessons as we see that, because a lot of people can be very negative about, wow, I had this bad boss and... And it woes me and the kind of victim mentality instead of, well, what did you learn from it? And how did that make you better? Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up because at the start you asked me about my experience and what propelled me to be focused on mentorship and that was exactly it. So I had a boss that I actually loved. I mean, we work great together, but something happened towards the end of our time together and it was very abrupt and it did not end well. I got fired and she really didn't handle it well. And it was unfortunate because I really trusted her and I saw her as a mentor, but at the end it just got ruined. And I think that happens a lot of times when we're, you know, getting rid of people or, you know, we're changing teams or whatever happens. It just gets mechanical at the end and that's sort of what happened with her. But it felt horrible for me. I mean, I was 26 at the time. I was super upset about it, but it, it told me, okay, I'm never. going to treat anybody like that on my team when I build a company. And so that was the startup was we have to break this. And I think it's so hard to break away from what you know, because what you know and how you're treated is what you know. And a lot of times it's what you emulate, but you have to really recognize this is, this doesn't feel good. It doesn't make me feel good. how can I do it differently? And it's hard. It's so much easier to mimic somebody. And that's what we have to stop. We have to stop mimicking bad leadership. Yeah. And that was from the sound of it, what started your leadership journey. How ironic that to see that ending become your beginning. And I think a lot of times we have to sit with our feelings and differentiate between the feelings and business, which can be a really hard thing to do to kind of separate the two, but also at the same time, there needs to be empathy in that. And it sounds like, when you mentioned the mechanical part of it, that she was just uncertain. Which part do I give into? Like, that's a personal, and then there's the business side and knowing how to walk kind of that line and handle things from a human level, because that's what we are. We're humans and we aren't just AI robots. have a chapter in the book called Healthy Exits, because I think they're so important. think that whatever the reason is that you have to part ways with someone, either they're not doing their job or you've run out of money or whatever the reason is, it doesn't matter. You're going to run into these people again. And it's also a teaching moment. It's the way you leave somebody is the way they're going to leave the next person too. So you're actually modeling and teaching. how to separate from someone. And it's okay to separate, especially if you can't afford it or if they're not a good fit, but there's a way to do it that doesn't ruin the relationship in a way. And I think that that's really important to look at the endings that we have with people too, because they are people. And what you just said earlier about, we're always told to keep the personal separate from the business and it's just business. While that may be true, and business is business. We're still working with a human commodity. And so we're just people. And so we need to treat people with dignity and respect on the way out. Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, we're going to encounter them again. The world is a lot smaller than we realize. know, imagine going into an event and running into them, how awkward it is if you didn't leave it off well, or if they end up becoming an important part of a potential client down the road. And I've even known some people where the person they removed became their boss. Yes. I have an example of this in my book where this happened and the two individuals ended up doing a deal together to sell a company much later in their careers. you just never know when you're, when, even if you're the boss, you never know when you're going to need your team members help later down the line. So you need to be thinking about all these things because it does matter how we treat people. And people remember, people remember for a really long time if they're not treated well. Yeah. I mean, our brains are programmed that way to protect us. So we do, we remember like the worst experiences ever. So we hopefully don't repeat them. You know, and I love how like these companies I work with, so I come from big corporate America before I had launched out on my own and they would always do the exit interviews. Do you talk about this at all? It's like, you care what I have to say and what are you going to do with that information? Are you really going to truly apply that to your company? and make changes, you're gonna start identifying patterns, you know, and normally it's too late. And I've seen a lot of these companies, it's like they do that, but nothing happens, nothing evolves from that. Yeah, typically, you know, the exit interviews or even the quarterly or annual reviews, they really have not the person in mind, not the professional development of the person or the company. It's more just protecting the company, right? Cause they're done from that viewpoint. How are we going to protect the company? I challenge the leaders in the book. to do their own evaluations, to come up with their own questions in the interview process, in the exit interview process, and all the processes, because if you do work for a large company, their job is to protect the company, not the people. But to be a really good leader, you have to really understand the person. And if they give you feedback, be willing to make some changes. So I think there's something that I've heard from you before about leading with curiosity and not control. And I think that that's a really good point. Would you like to tell us a little bit more about that? I think, you know, the default for most bosses is control, right? We want to be in control of everything. We want to have things done on time and people producing work and control, control, control. It's hard to take a pause from that. So the word I like to use is curiosity. So if a team member comes to me and they say, I can't work here anymore. I've got to move on. Instead of getting upset about it and then... having your brain start going through all the things that you have to do to get them out of there and get the next person in, you know, take a minute and find out what's really going on. I mean, I've had conversations with some people that have ended up staying because there was just a misunderstanding. I've had other people that the job, had nothing to do with the job, that like they had something going on in their personal life and it was an opportunity for me to help them on a personal level on something that they really felt alone in. So I think just Be curious when somebody pushes back or says that they can't do something. There's something else there that you're not seeing. And it could be something that could help you be a better leader or company, be a better company, or just in a human moment, it could help you be there for that person. They may not have anybody else to turn to. I mean, I have legit had people call me up in tears, Amy, I can't work for you anymore. Well. course that devastates me because immediately I'm thinking, my gosh, all the work's not going to get done and this client is going to be mad and like, what am going to do? But if they're coming to you that way, just be curious, take some time. Sometimes they may not even have the answer. So you have to ask a lot of prompt questions. You know, was it something I said? Was it the isolation of the remote work? You know, start giving them ideas. Be curious about it until you help them come. to a point where they can really talk about it. Yeah, I think having those in-depth conversations is really healthy because like you said, you want to make assumptions, right? And so it's also for your peace of mind as much as it is for them. Absolutely, because otherwise if you have people dropping off on you, you may be wondering like, what am I doing wrong? And then if you never ask, then you never have the opportunity to fix it. Of course, it is so scary to ask anybody what's wrong because none of us want to hear any criticism about ourselves or what we're doing. But we can't improve if we don't get that feedback. And so this is where that mentorship goes both ways, right? You're mentoring. But along the way, when you're being a really good mentor, if you're receiving information back, you're also being mentored a lot of times by your mentees to be better, but you have to do something with that information. You can't just let it sit there in a suggestion box. Yeah. For those that are stuck in bad leadership, what advice do you have for them? Well, You know, sometimes if you've exhausted all of the things to try to understand your boss or your manager and it's just not getting through, you know, it might be a sign for you to move on. But before you get to that, I would always say give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't just, I think people leave jobs too quickly now without having the conversation because they're scared of confrontation and they're scared of what would happen. So if you are struggling with. an environment that you feel like, you know, not a place where you can have your voice heard. Get some time on the calendar with your boss, with your superior, your manager, ask for some time, let them know how you're feeling, how dedicated you are, how you want to help, but that you feel like there's a disconnect with how you're communicating and see if that doesn't fix it. Sometimes it fix it because let me tell you, it can be very hard to find another job sometimes and find that it's like seeking that perfect, you know, person to be with that partner in life. You know, they always caution against that with dating. Like you can't seek the perfect person. The same thing with job is you're not, not everything's going to be perfect. Can you work with what you have? The starting point is having a meaningful conversation. And if your boss is not initiating it, you initiate it. You're allowed to initiate it, but let them know. that you're dedicated and you're there. Don't start out with the whole list of complaints. You know, start with, you know, why you like the job, what you're enjoying about it. But here's where I really need some improvement so that I can feel comfortable staying here and see how it goes. If it doesn't go well, there's your answer. Yeah, and I would hope that, you know, leaders are having one-on-one conversations with their team so that they can prompt those type of conversations. And I think this goes back to being a good leader is having that communication from the get-go so that your team isn't holding stuff in. And I know there are still some people who operate under the passive aggressive mindset. And I think that's also really important as we do some self-reflection that we aren't being that way. can be open to, like you said, hearing that self-criticism or the criticism from others as well, because there's no other way to grow or develop if we stay in a mindset of I do nothing wrong and everything is fine with what I'm doing, we'll never grow from that place. Leaders need to slow down enough to make those impromptu phone calls. You know, don't schedule a scary meeting. Just check in. How's it going? Anything I can help with? Yes, we tell our team, please contact us if you need anything. But they don't always do that. And a lot of times they're going to go to YouTube or AI first and try to figure it out without us. It is your job. You go to them. You go to them and you ask, how's it going? Can I help you with anything? Great job on this, you know. particular achievement, what else can we do to make things better? great questions for them to have and it sounds like your book is going to be an amazing tool for people. I am looking forward to when it comes out because I will be grabbing a copy myself. I really thank you so much for being here and before we say goodbye, could you tell everybody where they can learn more about you, your work, and where they'll be able to help get the book when it's out? Yes, thank you so much. I'm very excited about it too. You can go to lifttolead.com and you can learn all about the book. It will be coming out February 25th. So I'm very excited about it and make sure get a copy to you as well. Thank you. can't wait. also have a link in our notes section for everybody that wants to learn more about you and your book and your social channel so they can follow along with you along your journey. And we wish you the absolute best of luck in everything you're doing. Keep doing the amazing work that you're doing because it's definitely something that is very needed in the space, especially for women. So thank you everybody for listening in today. If you're enjoying these conversations like the one that Amy and I had today, please make sure to follow or subscribe so you don't miss our next episode and we'll see you next time. Thank you.